<?xml version="1.0" ?>

<kc>

<title>Kernel Traffic</title>

<author contact="mailto:zbrown@tumblerings.org">Zack Brown</author>

<issue num="70" date="05 Jun 2000 00:00:00 -0800" />

<stats posts="1084" size="4517" contrib="419" multiples="180" lastweek="128">

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<person posts="1" size="2" who="Gael Queri " />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Ron Forrester " />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Zoran Davidovac " />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="f5ibh " />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Thierry Vignaud " />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Prairie Flower " />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Dave Gilbert " />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Richard Gooch " />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Steve Hill " />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Ariel Chen " />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Sasi Peter " />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Dietmar Kling " />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="David L. Nicol " />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="jani " />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Kenneth YK YOUNG " />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="John Hayward-Warburton (Programming account) " />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="" />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="S. Venkat Raman " />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Davide Libenzi " />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Tonglu Yi " />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="" />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="s m " />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Jani " />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Trever Adams " />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Paolo Rossi " />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Martin Butterweck " />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Richard Brunner " />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Pete Clements " />

</stats>

<section
  title="Linux On Hand Calculators"
  subject="Linux on the TI-89/92[+]???"
  archive="http://kernelnotes.org/lnxlists/linux-kernel/lk_0005_03/msg00340.html"
  posts="21"
  startdate="16 May 2000 00:00:00 -0800"
  enddate="24 May 2000 00:00:00 -0800"
>
<topic>Assembly</topic>

<mention>Dr. Kelsey Hudson</mention>
<mention>Pavel Machek</mention>

<p>Kenneth C. Arnold asked, <quote who="Kenneth C. Arnold">since Linux supports
the M68k family down to the M68020 last I checked, would it be _even remotely
possible_ to do a port to the TI-89 / TI-92[+], which are graphing calculators
based on the M68000?</quote> Vojtech Pavlik was optimistic, replying, <quote
who="Vojtech Pavlik">I think the TI-92+ (preferably 3x overclocked, too)
should be able to run uCLinux quite OK. Enough flash (1 MB) for read only
root filesystem, enough ram (640 KB) for running the OS - not as good as
the PalmPilots, but it could fit in there.</quote></p>

<p>Dr. Kelsey Hudson first thought that those calculators used the 16-bit 6809,
not the 32-bit 68K. <correction date="05 Jun 2000 11:30:00 -0800">William Astle
emails me privately to add, <quote who="William Astle">The 6809 chip is an 8
bit CPU with a 16 bit address space.</quote></correction> But he replied to
himself (and others pointed out) that no, they did in fact use the 68K. As
evidence, Kenneth gave a pointer to a <a
href="http://www.ti.com/calc/docs/asm/8992p.htm">TI-89/92 Plus Assembly
Programming</a> page, and <a href="http://ti89.acz.org/">another page</a>
that was unreachable by KT press time.</p>

<p>Elsewhere, Andrew McNabb was doubtful that anything could be done to get
Linux on those machines. He explained, <quote who="Andrew McNabb">Linux only
works on Mac II's (which have 68020's) that have a certain MMU. I imagine
that as you go to a 68000, even more stuff will be fouled up. There are also
major issues about I/O, installation, etc. I think that trying to port to a
TI would be a waste of time.</quote> But Daniel Egger replied that 'uLinux'
would run on systems without memory management units (MMUs), and added,
<quote who="Daniel Egger">even a port to the dragonball (a CPU with Motorola
68000 core and embedded connectivity) exists and is running fine for
me.</quote> Kenneth asked for some pointers to documentation describing the
differences between the dragonball and the M68000, and Daniel gave him a
pointer to <a
href="http://199.104.132.208/ProdCat/psp/0,1250,MC68328~M934310090795,00.html">MC68328:
DragonBall[tm] Integrated Microprocessor</a>.</p>

<p>Pavel Machek felt that the TI-92 was really not that interesting, and a
fairly pointless goal for a Linux port. Vojtech replied simply, <quote
who="Vojtech Pavlik">TI92 is cheap, has clock up to 25 MHz, and runs half a
year on four AA batteries ...</quote></p>

</section>

<section
  title="Things To Do Before 2.4: Saga Continues"
  subject="Linux 2.3.99pre9-2 JOB list"
  archive="http://kernelnotes.org/lnxlists/linux-kernel/lk_0005_03/msg00458.html"
  posts="89"
  startdate="18 May 2000 00:00:00 -0800"
  enddate="28 May 2000 00:00:00 -0800"
>
<topic>Compression</topic>
<topic>Disk Arrays: RAID</topic>
<topic>Disks: IDE</topic>
<topic>Disks: SCSI</topic>
<topic>FS: FAT</topic>
<topic>FS: NFS</topic>
<topic>FS: NTFS</topic>
<topic>FS: UMSDOS</topic>
<topic>I2O</topic>
<topic>Networking</topic>
<topic>PCI</topic>
<topic>Power Management: ACPI</topic>
<topic>Real-Time</topic>
<topic>SMP</topic>
<topic>Samba</topic>
<topic>Security</topic>
<topic>USB</topic>
<topic>Virtual Memory</topic>
<topic>VisWS</topic>

<mention>Andrea Arcangeli</mention>
<mention>Juan J. Quintela</mention>
<mention>Ben Collins</mention>

<p>Alan Cox posted the latest in his series of lists of things to do before 2.4
could come out. For the last one, see <kcref subject="Linux Jobs as of
2.3.99pre6-5" startdate="24 Apr 2000 00:00:00 -0800"></kcref><!-- kt20000507_66.html#5 -->.
This week, he listed:</p>

<quote who="Alan Cox">

<p>
<ol>

<li><p><b>Fixed</b></p>

<p>
<ol>

<li>Tulip hang on rmmod (fixed in .51 ?)</li>
<li>Incredibly slow loopback tcp bug (believed fixed about 2.3.48)</li>
<li>COMX series WAN now merged</li>
<li>VM needs rebalancing or we have a bad leak</li>
<li>SHM works chroot</li>
<li>SHM back compatibility</li>
<li>Intel i960 problems with I2O</li>
<li>Symbol clashes and other mess from _three_ copies of zlib!</li>
<li>PCI buffer overruns</li>
<li>Shared memory changes change the API breaking applications (eg gimp)</li>
<li>Finish softnet driver port over and cleanups</li>
<li>via rhine oopses under load ?</li>
<li>SCSI generic driver crashes controllers (need to pass PCI_DIR_UNKNOWN..)</li>
<li>UMSDOS fixups resync (not quite done)</li>
<li>Make NTFS sort of work</li>
<li>Any user can crash FAT fs code with ftruncate</li>
<li>AFFS fixups</li>
<li>Directory race fix for UFS</li>
<li>Security holes in execve()</li>
<li>Lan Media WAN update for 2.3</li>
<li>Get the Emu10K merged</li>
<li>Paride seems to need fixes for the block changes yet</li>
<li>Kernel corrupts fs and gs in some situations (Ulrich has demo code)</li>
<li>1.07 AMI MegaRAID</li>
<li>Merge 2.2.15 changes     (Alan)</li>
<li>Get RAID 0.90 in         (Ingo)</li>
<li>S/390 Merge</li>
<li>NFS DoS fix (security)</li>
<li>Merge the RIO driver</li>
<li>Fix Space.c duplicate string/write to constants</li>
<li>Elevator and block handling queue change errors are all sorted</li>
<li>Fix all remaining PCI code to use new resources and enable_Device</li>
<li>Make sure all drivers return 1 from their __setup functions (Done ?)</li>
<li>Enhanced disk statistics</li>

</ol>
</p>
</li>

<li><p><b>In Progress</b></p>

<p>
<ol>

<li>Merge the network fixes  (DaveM)</li>
<li>Finish I2O merge         (Intel/Alan)</li>
<li>Complete vfsmount merge  (Al Viro)</li>
<li>Merge removed-buf-open directory stuff into VFS (Al Viro)</li>
<li>vmalloc(GFP_DMA) is needed for DMA drivers (Ingo)</li>

</ol>
</p>
</li>

<li><p><b>Fix Exists In -AC Tree</b></p>

<p>
<ol>

<li>Signals leak kernel memory (security)</li>

</ol>
</p>
</li>

<li><p><b>Fix Exists But Isnt Merged</b></p>

<p>
<ol>

<li>msync fails on NFS (probably fixed anyway)</li>
<li>Semaphore races (fix in 2.2)</li>
<li>Semaphore memory leak (fix in 2.2)</li>
<li>Exploitable leak in file locking (Willy)</li>
<li>Mark SGI VisWS obsolete</li>
<li>64bit lockf support</li>
<li>TTY and N_HDLC layer called poll_wait twice per fd and corrupt memory</li>
<li>ATM layer calls poll_wait twice per fd and corrupts memory</li>
<li>Random calls poll_wait twice per fd and corrupts memory</li>
<li>PCI sound calls poll_wait twice per fd and corrupts memory</li>
<li>sbus audio calls poll_wait twice per fd and corrupts memory</li>
<li>Support MP table above 1Gig (Ingo)</li>
<li>Finish sorting out VM balancing (Rik Van Riel)</li>
<li>access_process_mm oops/lockup if task-&gt;mm changes (Manfred)</li>
<li>Dont panic on boot when meeting HP boxes with wacked APIC table numbering (AC)</li>
<li>SMP affinity code creates multiple dirs with the same name (Ingo)</li>
<li>Scheduler bugs in RT    (Dimitris)</li>
<li>TLB flush should use highest priority (Ingo)</li>
<li>Set SMP affinity mask to actual cpu online mask (needed for some boards) (Ingo)</li>
<li>Fix eth= command line</li>
<li>HFS is still broken</li>
<li>AIC7xxx doesnt work non PCI ? (Doug says OK, new version due anyway)</li>
<li>8139 + bridging fails</li>

</ol>
</p>
</li>

<li><p><b>Security</b></p>

<p>
<ol>

<li>put_user is broken for i386 machines (security) - sem stuff may be wrong too</li>
<li>Fix module remove race bug              (mostly done - Al Viro)</li>

</ol>
</p>
</li>

<li><p><b>To Do</b></p>

<p>
<ol>

<li>IDE fails on some VIA boards (eg the i-opener)</li>
<li>Find out what has ruined disk I/O throughput.</li>
<li>Restore O_SYNC functionality</li>
<li>Trace numerous random crashes in the inode cache</li>
<li>VM kswapd has some serious problems</li>
<li>Test other file systems on write</li>
<li>Audit all char and block drivers to ensure they are safe with the 2.3 locking - a lot of them are not especially on the open() path.</li>
<li>Stick lock_kernel() calls around driver with issues to hard to fix nicely for 2.4 itself</li>
<li>PCMCIA/Cardbus hangs, IRQ problems, Keyboard/mouse problem (may be fixed ?)</li>
<li>Use PCI DMA by default in IDE is unsafe (must not do so on via VPx x&lt;3)</li>
<li>Use PCI DMA 'lost interrupt' problem with some hw [which ?]</li>
<li>Crashes on boot on some Compaqs ? (may be fixed)</li>
<li>pci_set_master forces a 64 latency on low latency setting devices.Some boards require all cards have latency &lt;= 32</li>
<li>Loopback fs hangs</li>
<li>Problems with ip autoconfig according to Zaitcev</li>
<li>pci_socket crash on unload</li>
<li>truncate_inode_pages does unsafe page cache operations</li>
<li>heavy swapping corrupts ptes</li>
<li>Linux sends a 1K buffer with SCSI inquiries. The ANSI-SCSI limit is 255.</li>
<li>Linux uses TEST_UNIT_READY to chck for device presence on a PUN/LUN. The INQUIRY is the only valid test allowed by the spec.</li>

</ol>
</p>
</li>

<li><p><b>To Do But Non Showstopper</b></p>

<p>
<ol>

<li>Make syncppp use new ppp code</li>
<li>Finish 64bit vfs merges (lockf64 and friends missing)</li>
<li>NCR5380 isnt smp safe</li>
<li>DMFE is not SMP safe</li>
<li>ACPI hangs on boot for some systems</li>
<li>Go through as 2.4pre kicks in and figure what we should mark obsolete for the final 2.4</li>
<li>Per Process rtsigio limit</li>
<li>RtSig limit handling bug</li>
<li>Fix SPX socket code</li>
<li>Boot hangs on a range of Dell docking stations (Latitude)</li>
<li>iget abuse in knfsd</li>
<li>Some people report 2.3.x serial problems</li>
<li>USB hangs on APM suspend on some machines</li>
<li>PCMCIA crashes on unloading pci_socket</li>
<li>DEFXX driver appears broken</li>
<li>ISAPnP IRQ handling failing on SB1000 + resource handling bug</li>
<li>TB Multisound driver hasnt been updated for new isa I/O totally.</li>
<li>Fix boards with different TSC per CPU and kill TSC use on them</li>

</ol>
</p>
</li>

<li><p><b>Compatibility Errors</b></p>

<p>
<ol>

<li>Xterm broke in 2.3.99pre6 (FIONREAD/select loop)</li>

</ol>
</p>
</li>

<li><p><b>Probably Post 2.4</b></p>

<p>
<ol>

<li>per super block write_super needs an async flag</li>
<li>addres_space needs a VM pressure/flush callback  (Ingo)</li>
<li>per file_op rw_kiovec</li>
<li>PIII FXSAVE/FXRESTORE support</li>

</ol>
</p>
</li>

<li><b>Drivers In 2.2 not 2.4</b></li>

<li><p><b>To Check</b></p>

<p>
<ol>

<li>Check O_APPEND atomicity bug fixing is complete</li>
<li>Protection on isize  (sct) [Al Viro mostly done]</li>
<li>Mikulas claims we need to fix the getblk/mark_buffer_uptodate thing for 2.3.x as well</li>
<li>Network block device seems broken by block device changes</li>
<li>Fbcon races</li>
<li>VFS?VM - mmap/write deadlock (demo code seems to show lock is there)</li>
<li>rw sempahores on page faults (mmap_sem)</li>
<li>kiobuf seperate lock functions/bounce/page_address fixes</li>
<li>Fix routing by fwmark</li>
<li>Some FB drivers check the A000 area and find it busy then bomb out</li>
<li>rw semaphores on inodes to fix read/truncate races ? [Probably fixed]</li>
<li>Not all device drivers are safe now the write inode lock isnt taken on write</li>
<li>File locking needs checking for races</li>
<li>Multiwrite IDE breaks on a disk error [minor issue at best]</li>
<li>ACPI/APM suspend issue - IDE related stuff ?</li>
<li>NFS bugs are fixed</li>
<li>BusLogic crashes when you cat /proc/scsi/BusLogic/0</li>
<li>Floppy last block cache flush error</li>
<li>NFS causes dup kmem_create on reload</li>
<li>Chase reports of SMB not working</li>
<li>exec loader permissions</li>
<li>Locking on getcwd</li>
<li>floppy fails on some machines</li>
<li>IRDA calls get random bytes before random is set up</li>
<li>Some AWE cards are not being found by ISAPnP ??</li>

</ol>
</p>
</li>

</ol>
</p>

</quote>

<p>David Ford replied to several of these items. To item 1.1 (Tulip hang on
rmmod (fixed in .51 ?)), he said that no, this was still crashing as of
2.3.99pre3. To item 1.4 (VM needs rebalancing or we have a bad leak), he
replied that Andrea Arcangeli's 'classzone' patch fixed it all back up
again. Rik van Riel reported that the 'classzone' patch was unstable and
incorrect. He suggested Juan J. Quintela's latest patch as attempting to fix
the known problems. He and Andrea proceeded to have a brief dispute over the
relative merits of various attempts to deal with the recent VM problems. At
one point, Craig Kulesa had the last word, <quote who="Craig
Kulesa">Classzone was presented and discussed extensively on the linux-mm
list at the end of April. Start here, follow the thread onwards: <a
href="http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-mm/2000-04/msg00172.html">http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-mm/2000-04/msg00172.html</a>.</quote></p>

<p>Elsewhere, Rik replied to Alan's original list, to item 4.13 (Finish sorting
out VM balancing (Rik Van Riel)); continuing the credits, he said, <quote
who="Rik van Riel">And Juan Quintela and a few other #kernelnewbies folks.
The patch seems ready and better than 2.2 or 2.3 has ever been. I'm
currently testing stuff and it looks quite good, but as usual beta testers
are wanted to see if it works on all workloads. Please try the patch at: <a
href="http://carpanta.dc.fi.udc.es/~quintela/kernel/">http://carpanta.dc.fi.udc.es/~quintela/kernel/</a>.</quote>
Ben Collins reported good results with the patch, but there was no
discussion.</p>

<p>In David's original post, he also suggested as "to do but non-showstopper",
<quote who="David Ford">2.3.99-pre9-1, I'm able to mount the floppy any
given number of times over and over without unmounting it. No errors seem to
happen and umount needs to happen for each mount before the device is no
longer in use.</quote> Alexander Viro replied, <quote who="Alexander
Viro">And that's a bug which way? Yes, we have multiple mounts now. Yes, fs
is busy until you undo each mount (obviously). Yes, you can mount over the
mountpoint. You are getting precisely what you are asking for - operation
used to be illegal, but now it's perfectly OK. So it succeeds. What's the
problem?</quote> There was some interest in why such a feature had been
added, but no real explanation surfaced. <correction date="06 Jun 2000 23:00:00 -0800">Stephen Landamore emailed me to point out that this was discussed in
<kcref subject="question on your MOUNT_REWRITE changes."
startdate="14 Apr 2000 00:00:00 -0800"></kcref><!-- kt20000424_64.html#9 -->. Thanks,
Stephen!</correction></p>

<p>Also in his original post, to item 6.9 (PCMCIA/Cardbus hangs, IRQ problems,
Keyboard/mouse problem (may be fixed ?)), David replied that no, this was
nowhere near fixed.</p>

<p>Jeff Garzik also replied to Alan's list. He reported that item 1.32 ("Fix
all remaining PCI code to use new resources and enable_Device"), although
listed as fixed, was not. Also, item 4.23 ("8139 + bridging fails"), was
listed as having a fix that had not been merged. But Jeff said, <quote
who="Jeff Garzik">a 8139too patch just went to Linus that should fix all
issues related to RTL8139 (original) chips.</quote> He also pointed out that
items 6.16 ("pci_socket crash on unload ") and 7.14 ("PCMCIA crashes on
unloading pci_socket") seemed to be identical reports. There was no reply to
any of his reports.</p>

<p>Alexander also replied directly to Alan's list, saying that item 2.3
(Complete vfsmount merge (Al Viro)) had been finished.</p>

<p>Vojtech also replied directly to Alan's list. To item 7.18 (Fix boards with
different TSC per CPU and kill TSC use on them), he addended, <quote
who="Vojtech Pavlik">AND notebooks that vary CPU (and TSC) clock (Toshiba
Satellite, IBM ThinkPad) to save power.</quote> Christopher Thompson
announced in reply:</p>

<quote who="Christopher Thompson">

<p>I have now completed and tested my second
TSC patch. It is available at: <a
href="http://hypocrite.org/linux/tsc.patch.new.tar.gz">http://hypocrite.org/linux/tsc.patch.new.tar.gz</a></p>

<p>This works with 2.3.99-pre8 at least, probably most others.  This one
disables use of the TSC by an option in the configuration (i.e. make config,
make menuconfig, whatever) and therefore has NO performance impact on
TSC-enabled kernels. The disadvantage is that this is another option to set
in your configuration.</p>

<p>The old patch is available at: <a
href="http://hypocrite.org/linux/tsc.patch.new.tar.gz">http://hypocrite.org/linux/tsc.patch.new.tar.gz</a></p>

<p>And works for at least 2.3.99-pre6 and pre8, probably most others.  This one
doesn't use any configuration but rather, determines the situation on
bootup. There were some legitimate complaints about this.</p>

<p>I welcome comments and suggestions for improvement.  I specifically would
like to know how well it works for you and whether it works on a laptop
which varies CPU speed (particularly an SMP laptop if such exists).</p>

<p>Just to note:  Win2k *does* allow SMP machines with different speed CPUs,
despite several people's claims to the contrary.</p>

</quote>

<p>Martin Mares also replied to Alan's list. To item 1.32 (Fix all remaining
PCI code to use new resources and enable_Device), he replied, <quote
who="Martin Mares">Not yet, but thanks to Jeff Garzik many drivers have been
already converted.</quote> And to item 6.13 (pci_set_master forces a 64
latency on low latency setting devices.Some boards require all cards have
latency &lt;= 32), he added that this was fixed in 2.3.99-pre7.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Linus Discusses Transmeta Chips"
  subject="8259A initialization with AMD SC520 chip (586)"
  archive="http://kernelnotes.org/lnxlists/linux-kernel/lk_0005_04/msg00162.html"
  posts="16"
  startdate="21 May 2000 00:00:00 -0800"
  enddate="29 May 2000 00:00:00 -0800"
>

<mention>Jamie Lokier</mention>

<p>In the course of discussion, Linus Torvalds had some things to say about his
work at Transmeta. Speaking of whether Transmeta chips would morph out empty
loops, he remarked:</p>

<quote who="Linus Torvalds">

<p>We'd love to, but we don't touch code like that.
We could have made the old bogomips give infinite values if we _really_
wanted to, but code like that has one purpose, and one purpose only:
delaying. So we never remove those kinds of loops.</p>

<p>(And in any case it would have been extra logic - empty loop removal is very
much a special case, so whatever we did would have been an extra wart rather
than anything that came really naturally to the way morphing
works..)</p>

</quote>

<p>In a later post, he added:</p>

<quote who="Linus Torvalds">

<p>There's a ton of funky stuff we _could_ do if we
wanted to implement the x86 "right". Sadly, we have to be quite careful ;)</p>

<p>[ You _really_ don't want to know about taking page faults in the middle of
a task switch that is the result of a task gate being used to handle another
page fault, which in turn happened while we were loading the second part of
a page-crossing 32-bit word. Question: do you mark the page table entry for
the incomplete part that you already checked as accessed or not? ]</p>

</quote>

<p>Jamie Lokier replied that actually, he <i>did</i> want to know, since he was
busy writing an x86 formal spec. Linus expounded:</p>

<quote who="Linus Torvalds">

<p>It actually depends on the CPU, and the type of
access.</p>

<p>If it's a "atomic" 32-bit access, you don't mark the PTE accessed, because
the page fault will have been noticed before any data was actually fetched.
But that is not true for some data that has more "structure" to it that can
be loaded as separate pieces and then a page fault part-way through can have
already set some of the accessed bits.</p>

<p>The reason it is CPU-dependent seems to be that with speculative loads and
out-of-order execution the whole thing becomes much more subtle, and
"separate pieces" is no longer the firm thing it used to be. A Pentium core
will act differently from a PPro core in many of these special cases.</p>

<p>Nobody sane obviously should ever care. It's hard to even test for, in many
cases. We have some rather insane tests, and there's a number of differences
between different chips.</p>

<p>Note that many of these things aren't even documented to work. Intel
explicitly documents that if you use task switching hardware the TSS should
all be on a single page etc. And nobody uses the hardware any more now that
even Linux does it all in software. But it's often more painful to be
different and have to convince everybody that those differences do not
matter than to just try to look exactly like everybody else as far as
humanly possible.</p>

</quote>

</section>

<section
  title="The Future Of sleep()"
  subject="[PATCH] bttv driver II"
  archive="http://kernelnotes.org/lnxlists/linux-kernel/lk_0005_04/msg00195.html"
  posts="21"
  startdate="22 May 2000 00:00:00 -0800"
  enddate="25 May 2000 00:00:00 -0800"
>

<p>In the course of discussion, David Woodhouse remarked, <quote who="David
Woodhouse">How many _valid_ (i.e. non-racing) uses of sleep_on() exist in
the kernel at the moment? I suspect it's a miniscule proportion of the
occurrences,</quote> and Linus Torvalds replied:</p>

<quote who="Linus Torvalds">

<p>We've for the longest time occasionally
considered just removing it. Th enotion of "sleep_on()" is a very simple
notion, and people understand what it's all about, but most of the uses tend
to be buggy.</p>

<p>It might be a good idea to remove sleep() altogether during early 2.5.x.
Please remind me. It shouldn't be that painful for most people (but there
are probably tons of drivers that need to be updated and tested - 2.5.x is
definitely the right point to do this).</p>

</quote>

</section>

<section
  title="The LKBS Linux Kernel Benchmark Suite"
  subject="[RFC] Linux Kernel Benchmark Suite"
  archive="http://kernelnotes.org/lnxlists/linux-kernel/lk_0005_04/msg00166.html"
  posts="12"
  startdate="22 May 2000 00:00:00 -0800"
  enddate="23 May 2000 00:00:00 -0800"
>
<topic>Real-Time</topic>

<mention>Victor Yodaiken</mention>
<mention>Rik van Riel</mention>
<mention>Dominik Kubla</mention>

<p>Guus Sliepen felt that because of all the recent performance complaints,
there really needed to be a standard benchmark suite. He proposed:</p>

<quote who="Guus Sliepen">

<p>I suggest creating LKBS:</p>

<p>
<ul>

<li>includes test programs the kernel developpers have written</li>

<li>runs somewhere early after booting (perhaps by starting it instead of
/sbin/init, or in a seperate runlevel)</li>

<li>records all relevant data from the machine (kernel version, config, cpu,
memory, drives, etc.)</li>

<li>puts all data together in easilly parsed (both human and machine
ofcourse) file and sends it to a main benchmark repository</li>

<li>should be free for download from a natural place (ftp.kernel.org,
package for your $DISTRO) and easy to install/run.</li>

</ul>
</p>

<p>I don't know what you think of it, or if there already are such things. If
not, I'd happily volunteer to start this project.</p>

</quote>

<p>Andre Hedrick reached for his megaphone, turned the knob up to 10, depressed
the plastic trigger mechanism, and bellowed, <quote who="Andre Hedrick">GO
FOR IT!!!!!!!!</quote>. He released the trigger, stowed the megaphone, and
continued soberly, <quote who="Andre Hedrick">Linux needs a standard so that
we can do hardware comparisions and provide manufacturers a tool to optimize
for Linux. Currently anyone using OTC hardware it is tainted with
"WinBench". Specifically DISK caching tables are all tweaked for the other
OS..........</quote></p>

<p>Phil Wilshire suggested joining the Real Time Linux mailing list, by sending
"subscribe testing" in the body of a message to <a
href="mailto:missdomo@realtimelinux.org">missdomo@realtimelinux.org</a>. He
also volunteered to do some work on it himself. Guus replied, <quote
who="Guus Sliepen">I prefer linux-perf, not only because it's name and the
fact that it appears more general than a list at realtimelinux, but also
because it has more members, which will give this project more
momentum.</quote> He added, <quote who="Guus Sliepen">I've already set up a
(very preliminary) web page at http://www.phys.uu.nl/~sliepen/lkbs/. I'll
try to make Rik van Riel <a href="http://lkbs.nl.linux.org/">host it on
www.nl.linux.org</a> (which is a portal site so many people will visit it,
and it has relations with lots of other Linux user groups), unless you or
someone else has an even better alternative ofcourse :).</quote></p>

<p>Victor Yodaiken suggested that 'lmbench' would be the natural starting point
for LKBS. Kip Macy agreed with this, and added peripherally, <quote
who="Kip Macy">Out of academic curiousity I ran lmbench on all 60
development kernels. If anyone is interested in the results I will post them
to my website.</quote> Victor replied with extreme interest, but no URL was
posted.</p>

<p>Larry McVoy had some encouragement to offer as well:</p>

<quote who="Larry McVoy">

<p>I'd really love it if this effort got started.  I
have a huge backlog of lmbench submissions that I have not processed and put
up on the web. I just don't have time these days but the data is there.</p>

<p>Furthermore, I've done a lot of work like what you are proposing and I'd
like Linux to benefit from that, but I can't start a project to do that. On
the other hand, if there are people who want to work on it, I can certainly
help focus the efforts. I've literally spent years doing this sort of thing
at SGI &amp; Sun and it seems a waste that I'm not passing on that
knowledge/experience. So I'll help if someone else wants to drive.</p>

</quote>

<p>Guus was very happy about this, and said:</p>

<quote who="Guus Sliepen">

<p>I've just checked out lmbench, that is indeed what
I envisioned, except that it does some general benchmarks that apply to most
Unices, and I think many developpers like to see their own Linux specific
benchmark to go into that too, so they can gather information about the
performance of their driver/patch. It was also a little hard to find (I had
to use FTPsearch and follow some links), you should put it on Freshmeat IMO
:).</p>

<p>This, combined with an automated repository that would gather all
information and send digests on request to developpers, would certainly
benefit development I think.</p>

</quote>

<p>J. Robert von Behren was also enthusiastic:</p>

<quote who="J. Robert von Behren">

<p>This definitely sounds like an excellent
idea to me. I'd be happy to help out, so if you'd like a hand in organizing
this, setting up the benchmarks, or creating the site for the benchmark
results let me know.</p>

<p>IMO, there are two comparisons that would be really useful in helping to
pinpoint performance problems or bugs in the kernel:</p>

<p>
<ol>

<li>tracking how different kernels perform on a stationary hardware platform
      (ie fixing all hardware variables)</li>

<li>looking at the difference between different hardware platforms for a
      given kernel</li>

</ol>
</p>

<p>It would also be very nice to link to lists of changes between versions, to
help people figure out _why_ performance certain changes in performance
occurr.</p>

<p>It might makes sense to move a discussion of this off the kernel list. I'd
be happy to set up a discusion list for this - just let me know if people
are interested.</p>

</quote>

<p>Dominik Kubla also felt the topic had left the realm of linux-kernel, and
suggested moving to linux-perf, even though that list had been pretty quiet
for several months. To subscribe, send "subscribe linux-perf" in the body of
an email to <a
href="mail:majordomo@www-klinik.uni-mainz.de">majordomo@www-klinik.uni-mainz.de</a>.
Guus replied that he was on that list, and invited others to follow him
there.</p>

<p>End Of Thread.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Proposal For Kernel Changelogs"
  subject="RFC: kernel changelogs (semi-long)"
  archive="http://kernelnotes.org/lnxlists/linux-kernel/lk_0005_04/msg00281.html"
  posts="3"
  startdate="23 May 2000 00:00:00 -0800"
  enddate="23 May 2000 00:00:00 -0800"
>

<p>Jeff Garzik proposed:</p>

<quote who="Jeff Garzik">

<p>When analyzing a kernel code change, it is
sometimes not possible to deduce the true meaning of the change from the
diff itself. When this happens, analysis of the surrounding code is
required, sometimes accompanied by mailing list searches and such.</p>

<p>Occasionally, we even have bad patches which get applied and then
un-applied, over the course of six months or a year. From many perspectives
-- long term maintenance, short term change evaluation, general code
understanding -- a small changelog entry for each change seems advantageous.
I think GNOME, egcs, and other projects using changelogs have experience
which bears this out.</p>

<p>Since the kernel doesn't have a canonical source code repository[1], we must
current on the human (but still brilliant) minds of Linus, Alan, DaveM, sct,
tytso, and others. Therefore I propose to have kernel changelogs.</p>

<p>Disadvantages exist too...  Gotta get Linus, Alan, and other big
contributors to agree. It takes more time, especially for people like Alan
who feed lots of changes to Linus. And people will inevitably bicker on
changelog entry format.</p>

<p>Three small technical notes:</p>

<p>
<ul>

<li>I prefer an egcs-style format (sample below), but don't feel strongly
about the issue.</li>

<li>ChangeLogs are generally not patch-friendly, due to the high possibility
of conflicts. egcs'ers appear to cut-n-paste ChangeLog entries as necessary.
If changelog entries are to be kept separate from patches (which seems
reasonable if not necessary), this imposes an addition burden on Linus for
each patch sent to him.</li>

<li>ChangeLogs for drivers/{char,sound,etc} would be nice, but may be
unreasonable. Documenting core and arch changes seems more important than
doc'ing driver changes.</li>

</ul>
</p>

<p>Overall I believe the advantages outweight the disadvantages.  I've always
felt that sharing knowledge around has a positive effect, and IMNSHO the
Linux kernel community occasionally suffers a bit due to lack of
documentation on changes.</p>

</quote>

<p>Tim Waugh replied, <quote who="Tim Waugh">There already is a
drivers/char/ChangeLog by the way, although it hasn't been touched in over a
year. ;-)</quote> and Jeff replied, <quote who="Jeff Garzik">Unfortunately,
kernel changelogs imply Linus enforcement and Alan agreement, otherwise it
will fail miserably due to gaps in the docs....</quote> The thread ended
there.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Virtual Memory: Linux Vs. BSD"
  subject="Linux VM system vs. BSD ditto"
  archive="http://kernelnotes.org/lnxlists/linux-kernel/lk_0005_04/msg00519.html"
  posts="5"
  startdate="24 May 2000 00:00:00 -0800"
  enddate="24 May 2000 00:00:00 -0800"
>
<topic>BSD: FreeBSD</topic>
<topic>Microkernels: Mach</topic>
<topic>Virtual Memory</topic>

<mention>Juan J. Quintela</mention>
<mention>Rik van Riel</mention>

<p>Gustav Kristoffer Ek had been hearing that BSD's virtual memory system was
faster than Linux's, when memory got tight. He'd heard that this was because
Linux used a "one-hand" algorithm, while BSD used "two-hand", and asked what
that was all about.</p>

<p>Rik van Riel confirmed that BSDs VM system was in fact faster than Linux's
in those situations, and said that he and others were busily trying to fix
that. He added, with a bang of the fist, that neither Linux nor FreeBSD used
the one- or two-hand algorithms, and Gerard Roudier expanded:</p>

<quote who="Gerard Roudier">

<p>Linux-2.2 is using the 'one-hand' but 2.3 uses a
single LRU. Current fine BSD O/Ses seem to use the active/inactive queue
algorithm that may well come from Mach (historians should confirm).</p>

<p>The 'one hand' algorithm made full sense at the time memory size were not
that large. IIRC, the 'two hand' algorithm has been invented by BSD guys
when memory size increased, for the reason it took too long to do a
revolution of the map. This let me think that the 'two-hand' algorithm was
rather an hack than a really superior algorithm. Btw, this happened may-be
10-15 years ago, so this may well be just off-topic nowadays. :)</p>

</quote>

<p>Rik and Juan J. Quintela gave pointers to the '<a
href="http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-mm/">linux-mm</a>' mailing list
archives, but did not point to any particular thread.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Linus Releases 2.4-test1 And Goes On Vacation"
  subject="[SPOILER] Don't read if you don't like spoilers !"
  archive="http://kernelnotes.org/lnxlists/linux-kernel/lk_0005_04/msg00729.html"
  posts="1"
  startdate="25 May 2000 00:00:00 -0800"
  enddate="25 May 2000 00:00:00 -0800"
>
<topic>POSIX</topic>

<mention>Alan Cox</mention>
<mention>Mario Mikocevic</mention>

<p>Mario Mikocevic noticed a 2.4 directory in ftp.kernel.org, and a message
from Linus Torvalds in <a
href="ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.4/README-2.4">ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.4/README-2.4</a>,
saying:</p>

<quote who="Linus Torvalds">

<p>No.</p>

<p>It doesn't really exist yet.</p>

<p>But I'll be gone for three weeks, and in the meantime there's a
"2.4.0-test1" kernel here. It's not a real 2.4.0 release, but we should be
getting closer. There's going to be other test-kernels after this one, and
we'll find bugs. And bad behaviour. And wonderful features which we'll
document some day.</p>

<p>Alan Cox is most likely to maintain a "2.4.0-ac" series while I'm gone. Not
the same thing as 2.4.0 either, but by testing these test-kernels out and
giving feedback, we'll get to that some day.</p>

<p>Have fun.  And let's see how many people find this without it even being
announced ;)</p>

</quote>

<editorialize>I suspect that Linus et al would like to shed a more realistic
light on version numbers in general. Proprietary vendors made version
numbers such a big deal, because they had to create a product and then stand
by it and claim it was the best thing in the Universe. Actually, those
best-in-the-universe releases were always largely untested because no one
had used them yet! Same with kernel 2.4.0, when it finally comes out. It
won't be a finished, final, stable kernel; just one more link on a long
chain, a link that means primarily, "now we will try to stabilize the code."
The whole idea of accompanying particular releases with lots of fanfare is a
holdover, a "legacy feature" once needed for compatibility with other
commercial PR teams. But I don't remember seeing it in POSIX.</editorialize>

</section>

<section
  title="Alan Releases His First 2.4-test1 ac Patch"
  subject="Linux 2.4.0test1-ac1"
  archive="http://kernelnotes.org/lnxlists/linux-kernel/lk_0005_04/msg00809.html"
  posts="5"
  startdate="26 May 2000 00:00:00 -0800"
  enddate="29 May 2000 00:00:00 -0800"
>
<topic>Disk Arrays: RAID</topic>
<topic>FS: procfs</topic>
<topic>I2O</topic>
<topic>PCI</topic>
<topic>Sound: Maestro</topic>

<mention>Tigran Aivazian</mention>
<mention>Thomas Graichen</mention>
<mention>Tony Hoyle</mention>
<mention>Jens Axboe</mention>
<mention>Matthew Wilcox</mention>
<mention>Andy Henroid</mention>
<mention>Francois Romieu</mention>

<p>Alan Cox released his first 'ac' patch against the 2.4-test kernel, giving
some changelog information:</p>

<quote who="Alan Cox">

<p>2.4.0-test1-ac1</p>

<p>
<ul>

<li>Statically init the i2o config semaphore        (Juha Sievanen)</li>
<li>Fix the eth= command line and extend it         (Pekka Riikonen)</li>
<li>Rip out the 2.2 GHOST hack for DVD's            (Jens Axboe)</li>
<li>Fix VCD playing on some Plextor drives          (Jens Axboe)</li>
<li>Intel 840 GART support                          (Tony Hoyle)</li>
<li>Clean up initio resource handling               (Thomas Graichen)</li>
<li>Fix COMX compile problems                       (Francois Romieu)</li>
<li>Fix incorrect altstk over exec inheritence      (Bruno Haible)</li>
<li>Support etherexpress 10 isa (82595FX)           (Aristeu Filho)</li>
<li>Fix proc reporting of md                        (Brian Kress)</li>
<li>Reorder fs/locks.c but no function changes      (Matthew Wilcox)</li>
<li>Come out of APM suspend with interrupts off     (Andy Henroid)</li>
<li>Fix procfs sysctl to use structs                (Tigran Aivazian)</li>

</ul>
</p>

<p>Base point differences between Alan's tree and Linus</p>

<p>
<ul>

<li>Newer sk98 docs</li>
<li>Ramdisk defaults to 8192 for S390 (needs cleanup)</li>
<li>Debugging reminder on adbmouse</li>
<li>Format changes only on atarimouse</li>
<li>/proc fixes on kcapi</li>
<li>/proc fixes on sg</li>
<li>Maestro init cleanup</li>
<li>Semaphore for ixj cards</li>
<li>Version.h used in clgenfb</li>
<li>PLX PCI ids</li>
<li>Revert initrd change</li>
<li>Ksym fixes for RAID</li>
<li>Proc tidyup for ip_chains</li>
</ul>
</p>

</quote>

<p>There was not much discussion.</p>

</section>

</kc>
